In today's episode, we delve into a chilling and distressing phenomenon sweeping the globe—the alarming increase in chemical suicides. Chemical suicides, also known as detergent suicides or detergent deaths, involve the deliberate mixing of lethal chemicals to produce toxic gases, typically hydrogen sulfide (H2S), which can be rapidly fatal even at low concentrations. First responders play a vital role in safeguarding communities and ensuring public safety. When it comes to chemical deaths, they face a unique set of challenges and potential dangers that require special attention and preparedness. This segment explores the risks and hazards faced by first responders when dealing with chemical suicides or similar incidents. Note: This podcast episode is intended for informational purposes only and does not serve as a substitute for professional mental health advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health issues or suicidal thoughts, please seek help from a qualified professional or a helpline in your country.
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0:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies.
0:08 I'm your host, Julie Mattson.
0:10 Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine tingling, unusual and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner.
0:24 Do I have some stories for you?
0:26 Are you ready this week?
0:30 I literally cannot believe that it is almost June.
0:34 We are gearing up to get ready for the Fourth of July.
0:38 We always go to a local lake here and rent a little cabin.
0:42 It's a lot of fun.
0:43 We have a golf cart, we take it with us many times we'll decorate it and just kind of relax at the lake where there's really nothing to do but eat and maybe fish and ride around on the golf cart.
0:57 So this year just seems to be going by so incredibly fast.
1:01 It's been crazy, but we've been really busy at our office, unfortunately.
1:07 And I think I mentioned to y'all last week that I have just had an abundance of suicides.
1:13 I had a couple hangings in the same day and then some gunshot wounds to the head.
1:20 The gunshot wounds were all elderly people who had medical issues and they just felt like that they had become a burden to their family and they just didn't want to do it anymore.
1:32 Although it hit their wives by surprise because they'd never really talked about it.
1:37 But I think that they had just gotten to the point where they didn't want to do it anymore.
1:43 They felt like that they were a burden on the family and they got all their ducks in a row and everything in order and planned it out meticulously.
1:55 So we see a lot of suicides around the holidays.
1:58 So not necessarily July 4th, but we do see a lot around like November, December because those are months that say people who don't have family, they tend to get lonely, they don't have anywhere to go.
2:11 They're spending the holidays alone.
2:13 And it is sad.
2:15 I know that when we talked about decomposition, you know, there's a lot of people that are estranged from their families and no one checks on them and they don't have any friends.
2:24 And that's when that kind of thing happens because they're in the house for a long time before they're found.
2:31 Usually if they're working, they just won't show up for work and someone will finally check on them.
2:37 But more times than not, it's neighbors who notice that they're not outside as often as they normally are and that's how they're actually discovered.
2:47 But I've had a couple of deaths recently that I thought you might find interesting, I guess my first one that was like, this was about five years ago and then I had another one recently, I'm gonna say probably two weeks ago and it's something that we don't think about a lot.
3:07 It's something that happens accidentally in many cases.
3:12 But now people are doing this to themselves on purpose.
3:16 I can't imagine it being a pleasant way to go.
3:19 Personally.
3:19 I think we all believe that going in our sleep would be the absolute dream death if we have to do it.
3:26 Right?
3:27 But I don't want my throat to burn and I don't want to be in an accident.
3:33 And, you know, we all think about if we had to go, how would it be?
3:38 And what I'm talking about is breathing in household chemicals.
3:45 Now, we have a lot of people who actually huff.
3:49 I know commonly keyboard cleaner is used, which you can't really imagine how that would be a pleasant experience, but it's the high from the gas that's in the aerosol.
4:04 And we had someone, I guess right when COVID had started who went to CV S and bought 20 cans of hairspray, she just went home and started huffing them all.
4:20 I believe she ran out and ended up going back and buying some more and continuing to do it.
4:26 So you would think that at some point the cashiers would like, oh, you know what's going on here?
4:33 This chick's not a hairdresser.
4:35 Why is she buying all this hairspray?
4:37 But no, that girl was found deceased by her dad.
4:41 And so it's not only just those kinds of chemicals though.
4:45 You remember when we were all kids and my mom made us clean the house all the time.
4:52 She would always tell us that breathing in all those household chemicals from all those different cleaners in a small enclosed area without any ventilation was very dangerous.
5:06 I couldn't remember as a kid, she'd make me open a window and actually leave the bathroom door open when I cleaned the room.
5:14 You know, every once in a while I'd get a little bit lightheaded.
5:17 I'd use, you know, scrubbing bubbles in the tub and comment in the toilet and then Windex on the mirrors.
5:23 And after a while you have this concoction of chemicals that is strangling and you have to step out, open the window, blow a fan.
5:34 You don't really think about them actually being dangerous as far as killing you.
5:38 You just think, oh, you know, they smell bad.
5:41 So as a kid, I can remember how much my mom always stressed.
5:47 You know, when you're cleaning the shower, don't get in it and shut the door and close yourself in there and start spraying stuff, leave the door open and keep it ventilated and don't breathe in too much stuff.
5:58 It'll burn your lungs and those types of things.
6:01 So mixing the chemicals can also leak from those confined spaces and cause injury to bystanders and first responders in situations where people are using chemicals to hurt themselves and they're doing this on purpose.
6:18 So we're starting to see chemical suicides.
6:21 They are really increasing and the majority of them surprisingly are occurring inside automobiles.
6:30 And this is something again that we have seen quite a few times that I think the general public isn't even aware of between 2006 and 2010.
6:41 There have been 10 chemical suicide incidents reported in six different states and these resulted in nine different deaths and actually injuries to four law enforcement officers.
6:55 And that reason is again, it can leak from those confined spaces and actually cause injury to the first responders.
7:03 Emergency responders really have to take precautions to ensure the safety of themselves and also the bystanders because that's one reason that they're there is to protect the public.
7:16 And that also includes any leaking from chemicals that have been mixed together.
7:23 They can cause you to really experience respiratory irritation and problems breathing and basically you feel like you're choking like asphyxiation.
7:34 Now, the median age where we see this is around 31 that's because the ages range from 22 to 69.
7:43 So the average is 31.
7:46 The victims are mostly male.
7:49 So I just kind of wanted to go over a few cases with you back in 2010 in North Carolina.
7:54 And again, this is not my scene because I'm in Texas.
7:59 But a detergent suicide victim was found in a car, there was a bucket in the vehicle that caused acute thiosulfate poisoning.
8:11 Two law enforcement officers were also exposed and they were treated at the hospital.
8:17 Thiosulfate is potent liquid.
8:21 It is a reagent to cyanide.
8:26 So these police officers were treated at the hospital and surprisingly, the surrounding homes were evacuated and the deceased was decontaminated prior to being transported to the medical examiner's office because they didn't want to actually expose anyone there.
8:45 I mean, it becomes pretty serious when these things affect so many people in such a wide range, the dust from these solutions can actually cause skin irritation and that's just from their prolonged repeated contact.
9:04 It kind of mists the eyes and irritates or burns them and can cause conjunctivitis.
9:10 And so it's not comfortable.
9:12 It's not something that you would wish on anybody except maybe an ex. No, just kidding.
9:18 But there are so many different chemicals that can cause issues in New York.
9:25 In 2009, a hiker in a park actually found a car and it had warning signs on it stating that there were toxic gasses inside the car.
9:36 And the hiker actually called 911.
9:39 Now they found a deceased person with two buckets filled with chemicals and the hikers and the residents within half a mile of that scene where that car was, were actually evacuated, the car was vented.
9:57 So they opened all the doors before removal of the body and then the body was double bagged and that's just for protection for those around it who are gonna be around the body.
10:09 Now venting the car is a great idea.
10:12 And I'll tell you a little bit about why and what happened to me on my scene that was very much like this.
10:19 The toxic gasses from all of these different chemicals most commonly formed are hydrogen sulfide and hydrogen cyanide.
10:28 And so those are two gasses that are formed commonly when you mix these different chemicals, hydrogen sulfide is colorless.
10:37 It smells like rotten eggs.
10:39 So it's not, you know, something you're gonna want in a candle, even a short exposure can cause inability to smell.
10:47 And at low doses, it still causes extreme eye irritation, headaches, dizziness and upset stomach.
10:56 Now, brief exposures at high concentrations can cause somebody to actually lose consciousness and actually die.
11:04 This is super serious.
11:06 And, and again, you know, it's funny because I was thinking when I was a kid, we would, my grandparents let us do everything.
11:13 And that's why we love to spend the night over there.
11:15 So we would go into my grandmother's bathroom and she had those little paper cups that we used when we brushed our teeth and we would mix talcum powder and Windex and bleach and a little bit of water.
11:31 And we would just experiment mixing all these things.
11:35 So basically, we were creating our own little chemistry lab and we didn't know it, but we literally probably could have blown ourselves up with some of the stuff that we mixed together in there.
11:45 Hydrogen cyanide is a blue white liquid or gas with a faint odor of bitter burning almond and butter.
11:54 And it can actually cause somebody to become confused and asphyxiate or not be able to breathe.
12:01 So safety really has to be taken to prevent secondary contamination.
12:06 And whoever transports these bodies who have been exposed to all of these chemicals should actually be in a vehicle that is very well ventilated.
12:18 One thing you want to do when you come up on a vehicle like that and you expect this to be the case that somebody may have mixed chemicals together and shut themselves into the car and are asphyxiating is search the area for visible signs, look for open containers or mixing containers.
12:37 So empty containers of cleaners that may have been dumped into a big bucket so it could be mixed with others.
12:44 So those are things you're gonna look for.
12:46 Look for attempts to seal a vehicle, putting duct tape over the air vents is super common.
12:55 Even duct tape around the edges of the windows.
12:58 If it's an older car and it tends to leak or the windows don't stay up good.
13:02 You'll see people making every effort to keep the outside air from diminishing the effects of the chemicals don't rely on odor.
13:14 Don't necessarily rely on the smell because like I said, they all smell different.
13:20 Some of them are very offensive.
13:23 Some of them have just a very faint odor and sometimes you don't even know that you've breathed it in until it's too late and then you start to get lightheaded.
13:34 It's real important for first responders if they come up on a vehicle that they suspect this has happened in to actually stay up wind, not to get in a position where the wind can blow all the chemicals and the smells towards them and keep bystanders away.
13:51 You know, don't let anybody get too close because you definitely don't want to be responsible for someone else being injured.
13:58 Actually, the Hazmat team should help prevent spreading when they come to do their thing.
14:05 This is so weird too evaporated gas from the wet clothes can cause secondary poisoning.
14:12 So that's a big thing to like warn hospital staff about.
14:15 If a patient that has done this to themselves, has it on their clothes, then you definitely want to warn hospital staff that the gas from these wet clothes can cause secondary poisoning.
14:28 So the smells from that can still burn their lungs and cause irritation now because hydrogen sulfide and cyanide are exhaled that makes mouth to mouth unsafe.
14:40 So who would have thought that, I mean, naturally you would think I found this person in the car, they're deceased.
14:47 I'm gonna try to save their life, but they're actually exhaling all of these gasses.
14:52 And so it is completely unsafe for you to put your mouth on their mouth because you will be exposed to some of those gasses that are in their system.
15:00 EMS, morgue and other personnel.
15:03 It's very important for them to ventilate their vehicle if they're transporting somebody who has tried to asphyxiate themselves by mixing these chemicals like this.
15:14 I've had two deaths of this nature in about the last 2 to 3 years.
15:20 And like I said, it's not something that we see very often, but I was really surprised when I got back to the office and started writing my report and doing my investigation that you could actually just look it up online how to do it, the scenes that I worked where this was the case, it looks like they pretty much read it and went as close by the book as they could.
15:41 Now, in most cases, you know, we talked about this happens in cars for some reason, people will rent or use their own car, but many times they'll rent because they don't want to damage their own.
15:53 They don't want to ruin their vehicle.
15:55 They want whoever they're leaving behind to be able to drive it.
16:00 It's interesting because as we go through the vehicles and we're seeing the chemicals and we're seeing the bucket and we're seeing the spoons and all the different things that they've purchased, we're usually able to find receipts in some cases, that's how, you know, that it's really planned out is people will go to more than one store.
16:20 I've even had someone on a scene before place an order a week in advance on Amazon for some of the chemicals that they needed to asphyxiate themselves in a car.
16:31 So it's very well planned out.
16:33 It's studied, they actually learn how much of what they need and their intention is to die.
16:41 So, it's a little bit different than shooting yourself in the head.
16:45 And I can only imagine that it would be not as fast.
16:51 So, who wants to sit there and not be able to breathe?
16:54 I don't know.
16:55 I mean, I guess eventually you pass out, but I wouldn't want to know.
16:59 Now, in one of the cases that I had, there was a bucket and several cleaners, I believe it was the toilet bowl cleaner and maybe sulfur.
17:10 She rented a car and bought a bottle of wine.
17:14 And then when she mixed the chemicals up, she taped all the air vents shut.
17:18 She put on her sunglasses, laid her seat back and drank the wine.
17:25 There were notes that were visible on the outside of the vehicle.
17:30 I mean, that's kind of nice when you think about it.
17:32 Right.
17:32 She doesn't want he or she, whoever does, this doesn't want first responders to be injured.
17:38 And that is thoughtful because think about it, if you weren't really aware of what was inside the car and you opened it, those themes would kind of hit you in the face and could cause a lot of damage.
17:47 So, but this particular girl was recently divorced.
17:52 She was in the middle of a custody battle.
17:56 She was very young.
17:57 She was in her twenties, beautiful girl.
17:59 So she put on her sunglasses, taped up the window, taped up the air vents, mixed the chemicals in the back seat.
18:09 And then after she was done mixing them, she drank an entire bottle of wine and leaned her seat back.
18:15 When we found her, she looked like she was sleeping.
18:19 And if the signs hadn't been on the car, first responders probably would have thought that she passed out in the car because of the wine.
18:26 They wouldn't have really realized that there was a strong chemical smell in the vehicle.
18:31 In her case, the bucket full of chemicals that she had bought at Lowe's or Home Depot were actually in the back floorboard.
18:39 So you can imagine the smell inside the car.
18:43 And honestly, when I went, I stuck my head into the car to kind of help get her out.
18:48 I did take a big whiff and I did have to go home early that day because it made me very lightheaded.
18:54 I did not feel well after that again, she rented this car, she made up her mind.
19:00 She wanted to do this.
19:01 She planned out where to go, where to buy all the supplies.
19:05 And again, we found the receipt in her car.
19:08 We verified that her debit card or credit card was used for the purchase.
19:14 She signed the receipt, no doubt, you know, in a lot of cases like this, that, you know, it is a suicide attempt.
19:22 Now, another one I had was really recent and this girl had a history of suicide attempts.
19:32 She was a cutter.
19:34 So she used knives to cut her wrists and she knew that she was going to be left alone because her family was going on a trip.
19:43 She waited for that opportunity to be alone to actually do it.
19:49 So again, there were notes on the outside of the vehicle, all of the air vents were duct taped shut and she mixed sulfur and toilet bowl cleaner in a bucket.
20:01 The bucket was left in the front passenger seat.
20:04 Now this bucket full of all these different chemicals actually erupted like a high school volcano science project.
20:14 So this stuff got all over her, all over the roof of the car, all over the seats.
20:22 It was literally everywhere.
20:24 So anybody who stuck their head in that car would have gotten a good whiff of all those chemicals and probably passed out.
20:30 It's really interesting.
20:32 I don't know.
20:33 I mean, you know, part of me was thinking just like the hairspray, if somebody comes and buys a whole lot of hairspray at the store, does somebody not like, think to themselves Ok.
20:43 Why is she doing this?
20:45 I mean, because people have hairspray so same difference.
20:48 If it was keyboard cleaner, I feel like there should be a little bit of education from store clerks.
20:54 You know, it's just like, say you're at Walmart or say you're at Home Depot and someone comes in and buys a ski mask and a pellet gun that looks like a pistol.
21:05 I mean, that's not normal.
21:07 And so I think that just people just genuinely paying attention to what people purchase when they work at grocery stores and retail stores could save lives.
21:20 Who knows.
21:21 A lot of these people don't want their lives to be saved.
21:24 There are so many caustic chemicals, I mean, antifreeze bleach drain cleaners, carpet and upholstery cleaning ammonia and even air fresheners, even though they smell good, doesn't mean they're necessarily good for you, especially mixed with other chemicals.
21:45 I found it interesting that bleach and rubbing alcohol mixed together are actually chloroform.
21:52 And I know we've all seen the movies where, you know, someone breaks into someone's house or gets into their vehicle and puts chloroform over their nose and they pass out and they get kidnapped and whatever else happens.
22:05 But Chloroform can actually harm the eyes and the skin, the liver, kidneys nervous system and it can also cause cancer.
22:13 So there's a lot of issues with these chemicals and that's why a lot of them now are trying to go a little more organic or natural and I've never really put much thought into it until you stick your head in a car that has been full of chemicals with all the doors and windows and vents closed.
22:35 You don't realize how truly strong that stuff is.
22:38 So that's just something to be careful of.
22:42 Again.
22:42 I mean, my parents reminded me of it when I was little and I mean, I probably lost some brain cells because there were a lot of times when I was in the bathroom with the door closed and like I said, scrubbing bubbles and Windex and comment and I just had a big concoction going on.
22:58 Surprised I didn't blow up our house.
23:00 I thought y'all would just find those types of suicides very interesting because it is so well thought out again, one of the girls actually went so far as to order well in advance on Amazon to get the chemicals that she wanted because she wasn't able to find those at the local store.
23:20 So ample opportunity to change their mind, ample opportunity to maybe just injure themselves and not kill themselves if that's what their desire was.
23:32 But it's very similar to like a carbon monoxide poisoning.
23:36 If someone parks their truck in a garage and the doors shut, all those fumes from the carbon monoxide coming out of the exhaust cannot go anywhere and it builds up in the garage.
23:46 And if you walk out there and you breathe that stuff in I mean, chances are you're gonna pass out if not die.
23:53 Of course, that's their intention.
23:54 They're not really thinking about you and what happens so much when you come to save them, but they want to get the job done.
24:02 And so they study and look online to see exactly what needs to be done and they want to do something that's foolproof.
24:09 So, just think about that if you ever, you know, strangely enough, come up upon a car and somebody's in there and appears to be asleep, just take caution to the fact that there could be something in that car that could be very dangerous to you.
24:25 Thank you so much for joining me today on Pushing Up Lilies.
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