In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I take you through a whirlwind journey of disasters and deceit. We'll start with the recent devastating tornado in Texas, discussing its aftermath and the challenges it brings to death investigators. Then we will uncover the chilling reality of date rape drugs, exploring how they incapacitate victims and the forensic methods used to detect them. Join me as we navigate through these diverse yet equally harrowing topics, shedding light on the science and stories behind them. * Listener discretion is advised.
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0:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies.
0:08 I'm your host, Julie Mattson.
0:10 Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly True crime podcast with spine tingling, unusual and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner.
0:24 Do I have some stories for you?
0:26 Are you ready?
0:31 Hey, y'all, I don't know if y'all heard about the Texas weather this past week, but it has been absolutely crazy.
0:37 A tornado went through my hometown and the strange thing was I just happened to be on the highway coming back from Oklahoma right after it happened and I had no knowledge that there was even supposed to be a storm as I'm driving through, you know, eventually traffic stopped.
0:56 And I was like, oh, it must be a bad wreck, whatever, not thinking anything about it.
0:59 And since I was sitting there, I got on Facebook and started seeing that there had been a tornado.
1:05 It was really kind of crazy.
1:07 I mean, it was eerie because, you know, all the lights were out on the highway and all the signs had blown over or were broken.
1:16 You couldn't really tell exactly where you were unless you got on your map on your phone.
1:22 It was weird.
1:23 And then one part of the highway there was just water rushing across it.
1:28 It was against everything I was ever taught.
1:31 Driving through moving water.
1:34 That was pretty dang high.
1:36 I mean, the semi in front of me, like it was kind of touching the bottom of the trailer and it made me nervous.
1:42 I think a lot of vehicles stalled and were on the side of the road after that, which made me more nervous because you know how death investigator feels about people standing on the side of the freeway.
1:55 The good thing is, I mean, traffic was not moving quickly.
1:58 You know, there's that, but it was dark.
2:02 It was very eerie, and I've been in a tornado before but it just kind of uprooted a tree in our backyard when the kids were little, and we were in the pantry, and it didn't really wreak that much havoc.
2:13 I mean, it knocked a few trees over, but no one lost their homes back then.
2:17 But this one, I tell you what, there was an RV park really close to a local gas station and everyone in the RV park went to the gas station for shelter and then unfortunately, the tornado hit the gas station.
2:30 I think there were about 100 and 50 people inside the gas station, but I was on the highway again, like I was saying, and I noticed on Facebook they were asking for volunteers at a local church.
2:42 I was just almost there.
2:44 I was like, you know what I mean?
2:46 I might as well stop, so I pulled in to see if I could help.
2:50 I was at the church in Valley View at one of the churches and then they bussed over about 35 of the victims.
2:58 We gave them food and Gatorade and just kind of, you know, we're there for emotional support because I'm sure it was traumatizing being in it, talked to a couple of kiddos that were from Killeen and that were headed to Oklahoma with their mom to visit their dad.
3:14 And yeah, I mean, their car got caught in it and so the kids were covered in glass, you know, they had glass in their hair, they had glass on their face, they didn't have any cuts, but they were just sort of the very small shiny shards that you don't want to rub off because they will cut you trying to help them get glass off.
3:31 And they were just telling me, you know, about the windows breaking and I hate to think that they had to go through that.
3:40 I mean, because it just sounded horrifying, but I think talking to someone kind of made them feel a little bit better.
3:46 A lot of people brought their dogs.
3:48 There were several dogs in there, but I know that some people were missing their dogs.
3:53 And now on Facebook, I'm seeing that a lot of pictures are being found that have blown out of homes that were destroyed and being found miles and miles and miles away in another town.
4:08 It's kind of weird and, I mean, I know that many people have been through this before and I guess I've decided, I always kind of wondered when our time was coming because we're kind of in that tornado alley area.
4:20 But I know it seems to hit Kansas and Oklahoma more than us.
4:24 Not that we've ever really thought that we were going to avoid it forever.
4:28 But man, I know seven people lost their lives and I think four or five of them were Children.
4:37 Anyway.
4:37 Just pray for valley View, Texas, Sanger, Texas.
4:40 Those areas were hit really, really hard.
4:43 Of course, they're taking donations anyway.
4:46 I mean, even today, it's been crazy.
4:49 I mean, we had sleet this morning.
4:52 It's now 89 degrees outside.
4:54 It's supposed to rain again tonight.
4:55 I think it's supposed to rain again tomorrow.
4:58 And so we're just supposed to have severe thunderstorms.
5:01 There's a lot of flooding going on.
5:03 So we're feeling it, y'all, we are getting hit hard.
5:07 Hopefully everyone stays safe.
5:09 I wish there was more I could do to help those who lost their home.
5:13 But I just, I don't know, it's devastating anyway.
5:17 Last week we talked a little bit about cyanide poisoning, and the week before that arsenic poisoning.
5:26 And I guess I was kind of mentioning that, you know, a lot of these may slip through the cracks because if someone's poisoning someone who's been sick or has any underlying disease process, it's very likely going to look like a natural death and be reported to us as a natural death and could just be missed.
5:47 And unless there's suspicion from family before or after the fact to bring that suspicion to the police's attention and to our attention, it's going to go completely uninvestigated.
6:01 It happens, it happens a lot and I'm sure of it.
6:03 Like I said, we can't possibly do autopsies on everybody that dies.
6:09 And so we kind of have to pick and choose what we feel is suspicious and it just doesn't seem suspicious unless family members have indicated to us that they are thinking someone may have been doing something wrong back to the cyanide poisonings.
6:25 A University of Pittsburgh researcher, his name was Robert Ferranti.
6:29 He was charged in the cyanide poisoning of his wife back in 2013 and he was convicted of first-degree murder.
6:38 Now he faced a mandatory life sentence in the April of 2013, death of 41-year-old neurologist, Dr Autumn Klein, and they were married, the jury deliberated for about 15 hours over a two-day period and found that he had laced his wife's creatinine energy drink with cyanide.
7:01 Now, he had purchased the cyanide for stem cell experiments that he was conducting on Lou Gehrig's disease where he works, supposedly.
7:11 So that was kind of the story that he gave.
7:13 That's why he bought it.
7:14 But you know, it was really weird if your wife ends up dying of cyanide poisoning two days after you purchase it.
7:20 Prosecutors stated that he concocted the plan to kill his wife after she pressured him to have a second child because he feared that she was having an affair or had planned to divorce him.
7:33 Now, Klein was only 41 and she collapsed at the couple's home on April 17th of 2013.
7:40 After getting home late from a shift, she never regained consciousness and was pronounced three days later, Robert Ferranti was quite a bit older than her, but 73 now serving a life sentence without parole at the state Correctional Institution at Houts Dale.
7:59 Thank goodness he was caught.
8:01 He filed several appeals and lost.
8:05 His fingerprints were found on the cyanide container, and they measured the contents of the container and 8.3 g, which is approximately one teaspoon was actually missing from the container.
8:21 Interesting that they would have measured it all out and figured out exactly how much was missing.
8:26 He had given her a teaspoon of what was in that container, and it doesn't take much.
8:32 You know, I know we talked about it does not take much.
8:36 I'm curious to see how big the container was, you know, how much cyanide they'll sell to a person at one time.
8:43 But I'm sure he got it by saying, you know, hey, I'm a researcher and I'm using it for my research, and they probably never questioned it.
8:51 It's crazy.
8:53 I'm just glad he got caught.
8:54 I mean, again, though, this happens all the time.
8:56 Cyanide is a little bit harder to get your hands on as far as buying it.
9:01 But it's just, I don't know, it's crazy.
9:05 Now there's other drugs and of course, as a sexual assault nurse, I have been around, not around those more, but I have, I'm more familiar with those because those are things that would be given to someone at a bar when they were out and then were sexually assaulted and present to the hospital.
9:27 And then one of us, SANE nurses would go investigate that case.
9:32 And so we had a lot of G H B.
9:35 Rohypnol, ketamine, all those different drugs that are given to people at bars, you know, by people with bad intentions.
9:44 Obviously, GHB is a central nervous system depressant, and it was approved by the FDA in 2002 for use in the treatment of narcolepsy. Rohypnol has been in the US since the 19 nineties and it's very similar to Valium or Xanax, but it is not approved for medical use.
10:09 It can incapacitate victims and prevent them from resisting assault, which is exactly what the perpetrator wants to do GHB is sought by bodybuilders because it is said to aid in fat reduction.
10:25 Ketamine is another one and that's snorted or injected IM, but it can also be put in a drink just like GHB and Rohypnol.
10:36 Rohypnol is a sedative.
10:38 It has a sedative effect that can cause amnesia.
10:42 It's a muscle relaxer.
10:43 The pills are distributed in 0.51 and 2 mg.
10:50 It's colorless, odorless, and tasteless and it dissolves without leaving traces.
10:56 Now, when I say that, I mean, visual traces.
10:59 You can't see the pill once it's dissolved, you can't see the residue in the drink.
11:08 It takes effect about 10 to 20 minutes after ingestion, and it can be added to any liquid with the effect lasting from 8 to 24 hours.
11:19 It's detected in blood for 24 hours and urine for 48 hours.
11:24 And some people put it in their alcohol purposefully and drink it themselves for a rapid high as an alcohol extender.
11:33 I can't even imagine taking that risk with anybody but much less my own body like just adding something to my drink to make my alcohol effects last longer.
11:45 But I guess one thing to note is that, you know, in social settings to just kind of watch your surroundings.
11:52 If someone seems really intoxicated after only consuming a small amount of alcohol, then that's very suspicious.
12:01 GHB is also colorless and odorless, and it is a liquid depressant with anesthetic qualities.
12:10 Again, used in small amounts by bodybuilders.
12:13 It comes in a powder or a tablet that's dissolved in liquid and gives the feeling of relaxation tranquility and loss of inhibitions.
12:24 It takes about 10 to 15 minutes after ingestion.
12:27 It's going to last 2 to 3 hours unless it's combined with alcohol where the effect may last from 20 to 30 hours.
12:35 If you're taking GHB and drinking, you know, it could last more than a day, the effect, large doses can induce sudden sleep within 5 to 10 minutes. Wow!
12:47 And ketamine is another one.
12:49 And they're using that now therapeutically as a psychotropic for people with PTSD.
12:58 They're using it a lot.
12:59 I know several people that are having ketamine treatments and I believe they're working, but it has been added to the predator category.
13:08 It's powerful.
13:09 It is used as an animal tranquilizer and it's available in liquid powder or pill form and it causes hallucinations, amnesia and disassociation making it attractive for a date rapist.
13:25 I mean, these are like scary drugs.
13:28 They've been used for a long time.
13:30 I can remember years ago I had a friend call me from a bar and she was in the bathroom.
13:35 She felt like she had been drugged.
13:37 All of her jewelry was gone.
13:39 It doesn't take long for these drugs to render you incapable to care for yourself.
13:46 Basically had to go pick her up and she's usually super cautious but it doesn't take long.
13:54 Someone can walk up beside you, and you turn your head for one second and it's in your drink.
14:00 Of course, you never want to leave your beverages unattended.
14:04 And I would not accept a drink from someone you don't know.
14:09 Even if someone offered me a beer back in the day, it better have the lid on it because if it didn't, if it wasn't still capped, I would not drink it.
14:22 Keep an eye on your friends.
14:24 If they seem drunk after only drinking a small amount of alcohol, then chances are something's going on.
14:33 You know, if you are drugged and, or assaulted, let's hope neither of these ever happen to any of you.
14:41 But it's important to go to a safe place.
14:44 I would definitely report it.
14:46 And in a case where you feel like you may have been assaulted, don't shower, bathe, or change clothes because you don't want to destroy any of the evidence again.
14:59 Touch DNA. It's easy to get DNA now, you know, you just don't want to wipe anything off basically.
15:07 But these drugs, you know, are going to make a person more compliant and they're going to weaken you so that you really can't fight back or resist.
15:16 You may be fully or partially unconscious.
15:19 But I guess signs to watch for is if you're feeling or acting drunk after little or no alcohol, losing consciousness or just feeling confused in general going somewhere and then forgetting how you got there, which sounds hard to believe.
15:37 But yeah, I mean, this is what they do to you being unable to remember anything after drinking, waking up, confused hungover or unable to recall the previous night.
15:49 If your clothes are torn or, you know, if you're in a situation where you may have been sexually assaulted, any genital or urinary pain, those are definitely signs to watch for.
16:02 Now, they can test for these things in blood, urine, and hair follicles.
16:09 There is a drink kit that you can buy.
16:13 It's called CYD Check your drink and it's a spike test and I believe it checks for Ketamine and GHB and all you need is two drops of the drink on it.
16:23 But I think there are other companies that have come out with coasters that have those.
16:28 And I believe some of the bars in California have those readily available now.
16:34 But I guess one of the main things to always remember is that regardless of how much alcohol you have ingested knowingly on your own, willingly, unconsented sexual intercourse is not your fault, and you deserve justice if that happens.
16:57 I would definitely instantly request help and be tested.
17:03 And I know sometimes when you're out of it, it's hard to think logically, but that's where your friends come in.
17:08 That's why it's important to talk to somebody.
17:11 I know that we can easily talk ourselves out of doing what we know is. Right?
17:15 Especially when we're not completely with it logically.
17:20 But the best rule of thumb is when in doubt, throw it out and that goes with anything.
17:27 I mean, if you suspect that you're being poisoned or that you're being drugged a lot, I mean, I can't imagine being in that situation, but I know that, you know, many people are, that's why we hear about it.
17:39 That's why it's on my podcast.
17:41 It definitely happens and it's no joke.
17:45 A lot of people think it's funny, poisoning and these types of things, it's just cruel and I mean, these people definitely need to be punished because they are criminals.
17:57 Their intentions are never good.
18:00 No one gives you Ketamine, GHB, Rohypnol, Arsenic or cyanide because they love you and because they want what's best for you.
18:11 That's never the case.
18:12 It is sad that people can be so cruel, and I hate it.
18:17 I hate it. I hate that anyone ever has to be a victim.
18:20 But I know it's always been a thing.
18:21 It always will be a thing.
18:23 There's always going to be people out there who want to victimize and are looking for their next victim around every corner.
18:30 But I guess the best thing we can do is just to keep our eyes open and just look out for your friends, you know, just pay attention to your surroundings is always one of the most important things to do.
18:42 I wanted to also let y'all know, I got a call from Tina with good nurse, bad nurse and she has an update on the case that we covered on her podcast several months ago.
18:53 And I'm going to do another guest host appearance on her podcast and we're going to kind of discuss these new things that have come out.
19:02 I don't know what they are.
19:03 I'm kind of interested to see what has gone on since that case.
19:08 But if you do want to talk about cases and I know I've said this before, but if you do want to talk about cases that hit close to home, maybe if you're a police officer and it's a case you've worked, maybe if you're a nurse, it's a case you've seen in the hospital.
19:25 If you're a fellow death investigator and you have a case you want to talk about, please, please, please reach out.
19:31 There is a way to contact me on my website, PushingUpLilies.com.
19:36 There is a way to contact and to put in there what you want to discuss, and we will make it happen.
19:42 We'll make you a guest host.
19:44 We'd love to have you.
19:46 And it's fun.
19:47 I don't know, it's kind of fun and it's interesting for people to hear stories because a lot of the small local stories don't get out to the news media and there's so much going on that people don't know about, I mean, it's crazy.
20:00 I mean, even our days here at our little office, some days are just nuts.
20:08 You know, I was thinking the other day about this tornado, you know, at any given time, we could have mass fatalities in an event like that.
20:16 And I know it's happened all over the world at different areas where they have had mass fatalities, knock on wood.
20:22 We have not had one in our area yet, but it could happen to any of us at any time.
20:28 There is a huge team of people in the community that pull together when something like that happens to ensure that families are taken care of.
20:37 The Red Cross gets involved to ensure that victims are identified.
20:45 I know they had the plane crash in Dallas years and years ago.
20:48 I mean, there are a lot of mass fatality incidents where those teams have to really kick it into gear in a case like plane crashes.
20:58 There's a lot of identification that has to be done.
21:02 A lot of people can't be identified initially, very few of them are going to have their ID on their person when they're found.
21:10 And so almost everybody is going to require scientific ID by fingerprints.
21:15 If they have fingerprints, sometimes they have to go through a list of those that are missing and then try to get dental records and match them up to the victims.
21:25 There's so much work that goes into an event like that.
21:29 And I know the seven that passed away in our recent tornado did not come to our office.
21:38 I was ready to go to work because I was afraid that we would have victims in our county.
21:43 But we did not.
21:45 And that's another thing I think that it's just nice because everyone is so willing to help.
21:51 It was unbelievable to see how many volunteers showed up at the church when I was there and some of them just walked from their house.
21:59 I mean, their house was right down the block, and they just walked over to see if there's anything they can do to help and still, you know, there are a lot of people making donations and those are so, so, so much appreciated.
22:11 You know, I hate to see it happen and I hope it doesn't happen to any of you anytime soon or in the future.
22:18 We are going to list some more things on our murder Merch store.
22:21 And so there'll be more things available there for you.
22:25 And again, you can always email us at Julie at pushing up lilies, shoot me an email if you want to talk about anything.
22:33 I have some people that are waiting to visit with me about cases.
22:37 And so I'm excited to get those on the air and get those recorded.
22:41 And then again, the YouTube channel will be hopefully up and running soon.
22:46 Hope y'all have a great week.
22:48 I hope that the weather is not what it is here for y'all and I very much look forward to talking to you next week.
22:56 See you later.
22:57 Bye.
23:00 Thank you so much for joining me today on Pushing Up Lilies.
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23:14 Thanks again for spending your time with me and be sure to visit me at PushingUpLilies.com for merchandise and past episodes.